Building With Mr. Francis
Sage Francis talks about life, his contemporaries, new album and The Bay
By David Ma
Next week, May 8th, is the release of Sage Francis’ new album, Human The Death Dance. Whether you dig his music or not, think he’s amazing or too preachy, it can be argued that the Bay Area houses his most staunch supporters. With a history that partially burgeoned from Bay Area imprint Anticon, the Rhode Island rapper has independently crafted a career for himself, signing with Epitaph and subsequently touring the world. His new album will be his second with Epitaph [part 2 of a 3 record deal] and also features charming Bay Area notable, Jolie Holland.
Sage’s tour will bring him to San Francisco for two nights at The Fillmore on June 19th and the 20th. The new project is much like his last efforts: Personal raps over eclectic beats. Although it should be noted that some of the production from composer Mark Isham are atypically sequenced, lacking drums and the normal rap-song formula. Lyrically, there’s a lessened sense of political clamor as well. The songs are aggressive, others are fun and some are slow. But the culmination of ideas, production and know-how reflected within the album will give die-hard fans what they’d expect from a Sage Francis project.
With a huge tour in place and a new album to promote, I spoke with Mr. Francis about his roots, record and rap career. It’s been almost a decade since he first awed a small afternoon crowd at San Jose’s ill-fated Cactus Club. And though off-putting at times, he’s surely intelligent, careful about his career, moves a crowd, and refreshingly, is real personable. Here’s our conversation:
A lot of people here are really excited to hear the new album. How would you describe Human The Death Dance to someone who’s never heard your music before?
Tough to describe, but I guess the best description would be to call it an album of reflection. Making the most sense of life that I can. It could be viewed as a break up album, or a celebration of someone who has explored his freedom and discovery while acknowledging the loss that comes along with that.
Which album, looking back at your discography, would you want to be solely remembered for?
For the sake of promotion I should say Human The Death Dance. If I really had to make the choice, I guess Personal Journals. Because that’s an album where I broke new ground and set the foundation for everything I have built since then. That’s not entirely accurate…but it sounds nice though, doesn’t it?
Human The Death Dance, alongside Brother Ali’s Undisputed Truth and EL-P’s I’ll Sleep When You’re Dead are all serious albums which are bringing attention back to indie-hip-hop as of late. Have you heard their albums? Can you talk about Ali and EL-P’s recent work?
I have not heard Ali’s album, but I’ve performed with him a few times recently. He offers a time warp that brings you back to a time when hip-hop offered intelligence and rebellion while presenting itself with an undeniable confidence and bravado. El-P gave me a copy of his album at the Paid Dues Festival and I’ve been playing it a lot. To me, El-P is the natural progression and growth of NYC hip-hop. While almost everyone else stood at a standstill, he moved on without losing the signature nature of what NYC hip-hop used to be about. It’s a barrage of sound and words and content. It’s like an evolution of the Bomb Squad sound, which I am a huge fan of. But, man…after hearing this album a few times through I’m starting to get anxiety. Kinda like how skyscapers give me anxiety when I look at them for too long. While I believe both of us know that hip-hop can be done in a mature fashion, I’ve moved more into a stripped down version of hip-hop where the lyrics and vocals take more of a front seat. That’s just where I’m at right now. A Healthy Distrust was abbrassive in sound and vocal execution, but I needed to move away from that for this album and do something more layed back. All of us are doing our own thing and it’s adding to the variety and critical mass that indie-hiphop is definitely benefiting from. If we all went about music in the same way we’d be doing a disservice to our character. And we’re all characters with our own traits, our own life and our own approach. It’s good that we can all come together and perform at the same events and share an audience who appreciates the different styles that we bring to the plate.
Do you think the mentioning of “white rapper” will ever cease in future writings about you? Do you care?
I think so. In fact, I haven’t gotten much of that at all recently except for people asking me my opinion on the White Rapper Show.
What are a few experiences you have learned while touring, running your label, Strange Famous, and just having the popularity you’ve recently gained taught you about your career choice?
It’s taught me that I signed up for much more than I thought I did. Starting with nothing and dealing with people then gaining a lot and dealing with people has taught me why people act the way they do sometimes. I’ve learned you have to spend money to make money and then you have to save money to keep money. I’ve learned that everyone is a rapper or knows someone I should check out but really I shouldn’t 99% of the time. I’ve learned that the people’s shadiness toward me is greatly increased when they realize I’ve done things they don’t understand but they still want a piece. I’ve learned that privacy is essential when more and more people get access to my words. I’ve learned to just let some people feel disrespected by me and feel ok about that while I do my best to be as honest and upfront with the majority of folks I interact with. I’ve learned that hollywood is seriously as gross and disgusting and fake as it’s portrayed in all forms of media. I’ve learned to only keep a special few people in my circle and that’s the greatest lesson of all. Never ever fuck with people you aren’t totally feeling. If you can’t find people you would fight a war with then you need to roll solo.
How do you envision your life will be once you’ve fulfilled your album contract with Epitaph?
Well, I owe Epitaph one more record and they’ve been great. If they want to further their relationship with me that option is certainly open for discussion, but we’re setting up Strange Famous Records in a way that would probably best benefit me if I released my own records. You have to consider, with all the work and spirit that goes into making an album, it’s painful to realize it’s material you do not have ownership of. It’s most important that the album is available to the public so that your work can be accessed, but on a principle basis I’m not too happy about not owning the album. None of that will matter when I’m dead I guess. But I like to keep things. I wouldn’t be putting as much money and work into Stange Famous Records if I didn’t think we’d be able to do justice to a new release of mine. We’re deep into the process of picking up bigger artists and expanding our availability and presence. If I stopped making music, this is where i expect the rest of my work time would be dedicated.
Since Mesh is out of San Francisco, let’s switch gears and discuss our city a bit. Do you remember the first time you came performed here?
I may be wrong, but I think the first time I played San Francisco was at anticon’s weekly event at Rico’s. It was their last performance there. I was fairly oblivious to any drama or local beef that anticon had created for itself while in the Bay, but I found myself getting heckled a bit by artists (who shall remain unnamed) when I started my performance. I don’t think they knew me, and I didn’t know them…but I did know that I didn’t fly 6 hours to stand on a chair and get heckled. So I let them know that that’s not how this night would be going down and I don’t think I’ve ever had a problem since then. Except for when I smacked the shit out of a kid at Slim’s a few years later, which was totally my bad. I guess. Haha.
You used to live in New York correct? Can you compare both cities from your experience? How’s life in Rhode Island? Would you ever move out here?
NYC is not only the mecca of hip-hop, but it’s a gross manifestation of human ability and disability. What? I think people in NYC are way kinder than their reputation, but those buildings shouldn’t be so high. It’s like the World Capital…and if the world was good then maybe that would be a good thing. What the hell am I even talking about anymore. San Francisco is more my style. I like the hills. I like the trollies. I like the 1960’s residue. I like that a kid is offering me psychodelics outside of an instore performance. I like that Sole didn’t realize the cake was filled with funny stuff and it set him off a bit. There were two places I considered moving to if I was to leave Rhode Island. Minneapolis or San Francisco. I can’t leave RI right now though. Strange Famous Records is based here, my girlfriend is the only one keeping me sane, and I own the house that I grew up in. Who knows what nasty hand this world will deal me though. I’d like to move to San Fran. Minneap is out of the question now. No disrespect to the midwest but I’d prefer a coast.
As someone who tours constantly—can you compare the Bay Area’s support for hip-hop to other cities?
I could have done that 6 years ago or so, but right now all I can remember out of the growing blur is that the crowd is hype as hell. The east coast is full of people with folded arms, so when I hit the Bay and perform there it’s like….YES. I don’t have to smash a trophy on my face in order to get a reaction? Awesome. Awesome to the max. I have so many friends out that way too…industry friends, music friends, poetry friends. That place is just damn friendly.
“Hyphy” is huge in The Bay Area. Have you heard it? I personally think it’s hellishly annoying. Maybe I’m just old and can’t get down with what the kids are listening to. But what’s your take on it as someone who puts out music in a similar field?
It’s a fun word. I say it when I take bubble baths. This is hyphy. This shampoo is hyphy-free. I use deoderant because I mind my hyphy. I like what I’ve heard, but I seem to be more into lophy stuff. It’s great when different sections of the world come up with their own signature sound and style. That’s the best part.
You’re gonna be at The Fillmore in a couple months. What are some of your favorite venues to play at in The Bay?
I think I like Slim’s the best. But I haven’t played in too many other clubs. We sold out the Fillmore last time we were there and we’re playing two shows back-to-back this time through, but it’s so big. So fancy. I need to get used to fancier venues I guess, but I like smaller, more intimate settings. The Glass Ballroom is the worst place I have played in the Bay. That place isn’t good for shows, only proms.
What would you like to say to the circles of people in the Bay who follow your music? Last comments for readers in general?
The Bay has been essential in starting the wave. The wave that a lot of us have been riding through the years. I appreciate all the support and positive energy they’ve provided me over the years and if I do move out there…let’s build. Let’s build something. Away from a faultline. Thank you again.
Sage Francis visits The Fillmore on June 19th & 20th. For more information visit: Strangefamousrecords.com, Sagefrancis.net and/or Knowmore.org.
